lazypadawan (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
lazypadawan) wrote2009-03-28 05:55 pm
lazypadawan) wrote2009-03-28 05:55 pm
Do Han and Leia Creep You Out?
Over the past week on ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-community.gif)
jedi_news, I found a link to a meta on Papa George's strange comments on developing Indiana Jones's relationship with a very underage Marion and what that implied for Han and Leia. The responses to the post discussed Han and Leia's first kiss and how it kind of creeped out a number of respondees. They pointed out Han's aggression and how he uses his height to practically back Leia into a corner. The scene does have that "if she says 'no,' she really means yes" vibe to it that to a generation inducted with all kinds of good touching/bad touching instruction is an anathema.
For me, it was and still is one of my favorite scenes in the saga.
Now I will say that when people knock Anakin and Padmé for their age difference, I point out that Han is at least 10 years Leia's senior...if that's okay, then there's nothing wrong with Padmé being a few years older than Anakin. When people complain that Anakin is a creepy psycho stalker, I always point out that Anakin actually respects Padmé's boundaries while Han at times doesn't respect Leia's. Granted, Han turned out better than Anakin did, but pre-Dark Side, Anakin was actually very respectful of Padmé. Han gets away with all of that plus his infamous, "I know" response to Leia's declaration of love because to many fans, he's cool. "Wow, what a pimp," thinks many a fanboy. Anakin's an emotional, vulnerable wreck in contrast to his tremendous power, his actions more like a nice guy trying to grope his way around a girl for the first time than a stud who knows all of the slick lines.
All of that said, the kissing scene doesn't bother me. I view it in the context of the fact something has been happening between Han and Leia for a while, and both of them are frustrated with themselves and each other because of all of the barriers they won't break down. That's why they argue all of the time. Han decides to take the initiative the only way he knows how, physically. (Anakin does so physically, then emotionally. Interestingly enough, the emotional soul-baring speech is the act that really freaks out Padmé, not the kissing or rolling around on the grass.) That's the kind of guy he is. It takes carbonite, another movie, and a blaster hot wound to get him to open up otherwise. I think if Leia truly didn't want anything to do with him, he would have known it and he would have left her alone. Failing that, Han would have been singing soprano the rest of the saga.
Granted, TESB was made during a politically-incorrect age and the romance was inspired by those old screwball comedies where the man is usually the one who breaks down the leading lady's resistance. It's not rape. Han didn't put roofies in Leia's drink and if you notice, Leia puts up no resistance at all. She didn't mean anything she was telling Han. Like it or not, people don't always act in accordance with what's taught in a Women's Studies class or college behavior codes.
Around the the time TESB came out, America's fangirls were all over another ship: the hugely popular Luke (Tony Geary) and Laura (Genie Francis) from the soap opera General Hospital. When Luke and Laura had their fairy tale wedding in 1981, it broke daytime t.v. records and millions of women chucked school or work to stay home and watch it. The rich ones could tape it on their VCR ;). You know what was really messed up about Luke and Laura? They fell in love after Luke raped her a couple of years beforehand! And this was acceptable for years! Supposedly GH addressed this lurid topic several years later but still...creepy and sooooo wrong.
Kinda like Luke and Leia's incest kiss ;).
jedi_news, I found a link to a meta on Papa George's strange comments on developing Indiana Jones's relationship with a very underage Marion and what that implied for Han and Leia. The responses to the post discussed Han and Leia's first kiss and how it kind of creeped out a number of respondees. They pointed out Han's aggression and how he uses his height to practically back Leia into a corner. The scene does have that "if she says 'no,' she really means yes" vibe to it that to a generation inducted with all kinds of good touching/bad touching instruction is an anathema.For me, it was and still is one of my favorite scenes in the saga.
Now I will say that when people knock Anakin and Padmé for their age difference, I point out that Han is at least 10 years Leia's senior...if that's okay, then there's nothing wrong with Padmé being a few years older than Anakin. When people complain that Anakin is a creepy psycho stalker, I always point out that Anakin actually respects Padmé's boundaries while Han at times doesn't respect Leia's. Granted, Han turned out better than Anakin did, but pre-Dark Side, Anakin was actually very respectful of Padmé. Han gets away with all of that plus his infamous, "I know" response to Leia's declaration of love because to many fans, he's cool. "Wow, what a pimp," thinks many a fanboy. Anakin's an emotional, vulnerable wreck in contrast to his tremendous power, his actions more like a nice guy trying to grope his way around a girl for the first time than a stud who knows all of the slick lines.
All of that said, the kissing scene doesn't bother me. I view it in the context of the fact something has been happening between Han and Leia for a while, and both of them are frustrated with themselves and each other because of all of the barriers they won't break down. That's why they argue all of the time. Han decides to take the initiative the only way he knows how, physically. (Anakin does so physically, then emotionally. Interestingly enough, the emotional soul-baring speech is the act that really freaks out Padmé, not the kissing or rolling around on the grass.) That's the kind of guy he is. It takes carbonite, another movie, and a blaster hot wound to get him to open up otherwise. I think if Leia truly didn't want anything to do with him, he would have known it and he would have left her alone. Failing that, Han would have been singing soprano the rest of the saga.
Granted, TESB was made during a politically-incorrect age and the romance was inspired by those old screwball comedies where the man is usually the one who breaks down the leading lady's resistance. It's not rape. Han didn't put roofies in Leia's drink and if you notice, Leia puts up no resistance at all. She didn't mean anything she was telling Han. Like it or not, people don't always act in accordance with what's taught in a Women's Studies class or college behavior codes.
Around the the time TESB came out, America's fangirls were all over another ship: the hugely popular Luke (Tony Geary) and Laura (Genie Francis) from the soap opera General Hospital. When Luke and Laura had their fairy tale wedding in 1981, it broke daytime t.v. records and millions of women chucked school or work to stay home and watch it. The rich ones could tape it on their VCR ;). You know what was really messed up about Luke and Laura? They fell in love after Luke raped her a couple of years beforehand! And this was acceptable for years! Supposedly GH addressed this lurid topic several years later but still...creepy and sooooo wrong.
Kinda like Luke and Leia's incest kiss ;).
Ok, Say what?
Now, I'm of the opine that Leia was always a strong woman, and if she truely hated Han, or found his advances 'creepy', she would have had his ass arrested or Han would have met with a few dozen of her closest 'freinds' in a dark corridor on Hoth for a 'little talk' long before the big kiss (and as others have asked, where was Chewie during all this? Surely one simple 'Hell no' would have had him running.)
The whole scene is full of 'don't stop'. Two strong people who have hid their feeling behind petty bickering, but it's damn pretty apparent that they have the hots for each other.
As for Anakin and Padme - Anakin may be clumsy in his 'romantic' approach (a stolen kiss is a mutual one) - I've never found it creepy or stalkerish, and the INSTANT Padme told him to back off, he did (and then SHE went chasing back after him).
Is it clumsy? Oh hell yes. Does it reek of being written by a man who longs for the 'hot woman'? Oh yes. Does it seem like it should have taken more than one movie for real 'romance' to blossom? Probably, but it is what it is...
And while Han and Leia and Anakin and Padme are seen as "creepy", fans seem to have NO problems with Luke falling in love with a psycho Mary Sue (that completely is just better than him at EVERYTHING) who wears his testicles on her hip like some kind of trophy....
Re: Ok, Say what?
SO much word. The only thing Anakin remotely does to her without a permission is stare at her a few times, and if that's a stalker, then Han (and pretty much every male in the human race) is a full-fledged sex predator. And your argument for H/L works here too: if Padme was that bothered by Anakin's blatantly obvious attentions, she'd have asked for someone else to go to Naboo with her, and she certainly wouldn't have worn what she did there.
Re: Ok, Say what?
Re: Ok, Say what?
I have problems with it. I hate Mara and I hate what Luke became after he yoked himself to her. I'm glad she's dead -- why did it take so long for them to whack her? -- but unfortunately, her death has been used a reason to elevate her to sainthood.
Poor Luke. His love life sucks so bad, not just in canon, but in the parallel universe of the EU. It's a tragedy that Luke, who bravely stood up to the Emperor, is so whipped by the red-gold pestilence that he wouldn't sneeze without her written, notarized permission.
Re: Ok, Say what?
Re: Ok, Say what?
Re: Ok, Say what?