Satine: Woman Of Peace Or Pain In The Butt?

[lazypadawan]

Now that the Mandalore arc of CW episodes introducing Duchess Satine Kryze (a.k.a. Obi's ex) have aired, we have a fairly good idea of who she is as a character. She's certainly large and in-charge, one of the most self-possessed cartoon characters I have ever seen. She is principled and feels very strongly about her ideals. But are those ideals unrealistic and is she way too hard on those who don't share them?

The writers are smart enough to give Satine's pacifism-at-any-cost cover when Obi-Wan explains that some kind of civil war on Mandalore nearly killed off her people. You can understand why someone who believes her planet's violent culture nearly destroyed it (of course we have to take everyone's word for what happened) would be very, very adverse to violence of any kind. I can definitely understand why anyone, pacifist or not, would not want to be part of the Republic's tiff with the Separatists; I always say that Sidious's plans would have gone up in smoke had everyone just shrugged and told the Separatists to DLTDHYOTWO.

But as far as Satine is concerned, she is so determined to stick to her principles, I have to wonder if she would do anything at all to defend her planet. The Death Watch guys keep setting off bombs and trying to kill her, but what is she going to do about it? I can understand not wanting outsiders to interfere, but if I were a Mandalore citizen, she'd get a zero approval rating from me for homeland security. At one point during "Voyage of Temptation," she says that even extremists can be reasoned with. No, they can't. That's why they're extremists. In any case, I saw no attempt on her part to reason with Death Watch and they only want her deposed with extreme prejudice.

Now, Satine's occasionally self-righteous tone and speechifying on violence isn't so much motivated by ideology as it is motivated by her feelings about Obi-Wan. Why do I think so? I've noticed she only directs it at Obi-Wan. She never lectures Anakin about his violent ways, not even after he shish-kebabs that bad guy in "Voyage." I think she's mad at him for leaving her but still has some soft fuzzy feelings for him, which makes her even angrier.

In any case, Satine has additional cover from the fact we all know the Clone Wars are a means to an evil end. This is the second or third time pacifism has come up on the show (the only non-pacifist who seems suspicious of the Republic is that Twi'lek guy from Season One's Ryloth arc) but I've noticed that pacifism isn't brought up as a virtue in anything set during Episodes IV-VI. At least not that I can remember. What would have Satine done during the time of the Empire, or the Rebellion? I imagine she would have fought to keep Mandalore out of the Empire and failing that, out of the war with the Rebels. But Eps IV-VI make it clear that evil had to be stopped, even through violence if necessary. Not because the Alliance was full of crazy bloodthirsty Huns but because it was the only way to stop an aggressive enemy. If Mandalore's back was up against the wall, where the only alternative was slavery and oppression, what would she have done?

Comments

[knight-ander.livejournal.com]

I have to admit that I found these last three episodes to be the least interesting of the series so far. I've never been fond of the Klingons Mandalorians, or Boba Fett for that matter, so they were covering a portion of the saga that I didn't really care for, so that probably explains most of my disinterest. (And I view GL's treatment of gangsters and bounty-hunters in the OT as overconfident, bloated buffoons (in Jabba's case) and easily dispatched (in Boba Fett's case) was really just a dig at what turned out to be Copolla's glamourizing of them in the Godfather movies, but maybe that's just me.)

Plus that Satine gal really rubbed me the wrong way and the story behind her "romance" with Obi-Wan just didn't fit well with me. Could you really see the padawan-Obi-Wan in TPM throw his life as a Jedi away for her? It was hard for me to picture.

[lazypadawan.livejournal.com]

Well, I find Mandalorians are a lot less smelly and have better manners than Klingons. Plus they have jet packs. But I agree that Lucas doesn't glamorize these guys to the degree many in fandom do ;).

Could you really see the padawan-Obi-Wan in TPM throw his life as a Jedi away for her?

Maybe she was really easy. We can already see she likes to drink.

[andromakhe.livejournal.com]

Thank you! It's very reassuring to finally come across people who don't adore Obi-Wan/Satine, or even just Satine. Was starting to think I was the only one to passionately dislike both Satine and the ship.

I had serious issues with the line about leaving the Jedi Order for her. It just didn't seem in character for one as ambitious and goal-oriented as Obi-Wan, someone who clearly cares about career first. Since Obi-Wan was a teenager, I can buy that he had a crush on her and all that. But I can't buy that it still persists after what, twenty years? Plus, Satine struck me as the kind of person who wanted to change Obi-Wan, liked the idea of his Knighthood more than the reality of who he was. She calls him out for scarring her for life and criticizes his beard. I dunno. I just don't really get a sense that she wants to understand him.

Disagreed with reasoning with extremists, too, and wondered about aggression for defense, what she'd have done if push came to shove. The way "The Lawless" had things felt wonderfully logical and I honestly felt relief that I could relegate Satine to the sidelines. Her rescue and death just left me cold. It was like, "Yeah, this is inevitable."

Sorry for the rant. Just the very mention of Satine or the "romance" pushes the wrong buttons.

[attanagra.livejournal.com]

The question of "what do you do when someone actually wants nothing but to kill you?" is the real problem with pacifism at all costs. Taken to its logical end in an imperfect (and violent) galaxy, total pacifism is a suicide wish. Which is maybe fine for an individual. But I have to take issue with it in the ruler of a society, especially a society where there is clearly some philosophical dissent. Is Satine really going to stand by and watch Separatist tanks roll over Mandalorian children for the sake of her principles? And are Mandalorian parents going to let her? But then she has the excuse--as pacifists in the minority always do--that any bad consequences are the fault of all the people who interfered with her attempts at a peaceful solution. If they had just listened to her from the beginning, she could have talked the Separatists into converting their armies to nanny droids. . .

As to pacifism in the OT--I have seen it argued that Luke's decision to throw away his lightsaber during the duel in ROTJ was a conversion to pacifism. Given that he has his lightsaber back on his belt during the celebration later (and therefore must have gone to some effort to retrieve it before escaping the Death Star, despite everything else he was dealing with at the time) I think that reading of his decision is a little bizarre.

[lazypadawan.livejournal.com]

My perspective is that if you are charged by your people to protect them and you refuse to do so out of your own principles, you're worse than the enemy. You're putting your own moral vanity above the lives of your people.

Luke wasn't embracing pacifism, he was realizing that this was an instance where aggression wasn't going to work and was going to turn him to the Dark Side.

[darth-pipes.livejournal.com]

Very good post. I agree with it.

She's ultimately right not to get involved in The Clone Wars but she seems more than willing to accept losses as long as she doesn't have to raise so much as a fist to do it.

What's interesting is that while their leadership might be pacifist, the rest of the population isn't neccessarily. They did seeming willing by the end of the trilogy to take matters into their own hands and deal with the Death Watch. Kind of adds more layers onto thing.

I too wonder what she would have done during the Galactic Civil War, providing her own people didn't overthrow her. Which is always a possibility. Could make for a good story.