Indy IV stuff and thoughts

[lazypadawan]

Harrison Ford, in an interview with McPaper a couple of days ago, had this to say about the character who ended his full-time career as a carpenter:

"He gives "no credit to the culture for embracing (Han) as a hero. He's dumb as a stump! He's certainly got a good heart, but I think he's certainly a much less interesting character than Indiana Jones.

"The breadth of his story utility was never extensive. He was the foil between the other more compelling elements of the film. There's not breadth of character to explore beyond what we got out of him."'

For us long-time SW fans, this is nothing new. Ford has expounded on the shallowness of Han Solo for at least 25 years if not longer. I just don't know why he thinks Indy is somehow more complex than Han, except for perhaps the fact that Indy is the main character while Han is not. I realize Han isn't packing a lot of PhDs and he's one of those guys who acts first and thinks about it later, but I don't think he's dumb as a stump either. Moreover, people like him for the following reasons:

1. He holds his own even with characters who have powers and abilities he doesn't have.

2. He has his own ship.

3. His best bud is Chewbacca, and everybody loves Chewbacca.

4. He's not entirely good, but not evil or a heartless son of a bantha like Boba Fett.

5. He is snarky.

Bonus like: Women think he is hot.

I know Josh Holloway (Sawyer on Lost) has said that his character is inspired in part by Han, but while watching ANH, ROTJ, and part of TESB last weekend, it's really obvious that it is the case. I sort of expected Han to call Leia "Freckles." Although she isn't as freckle-y as Kate.

In any case, TFN linked to a thing on that bastion of excellence in journalism, contactmusic.com about Lucas's hopes and dreams for Indy IV:

We're not gonna have adoring fans sending us e-mails saying how much they loved the movie. We're gonna have a bunch of angry people saying, 'You're a bunch of a**holes, you should never have done this. You've ruined my life forever.'"

Don't forget about raped childhoods! From my standpoint, of course there are people who are going to complain no matter what, but I don't foresee a backlash a la post-TPM. There isn't the same crazy buildup to the movie nor is there as many people who have pinned their whole lives on Indy. The worst it'll get is whining over Ford's age or the way Shia LeBeouf's hair is parted.

But it does show how much the overdone hatefest on the part of a vocal minority really got to Papa George. Geez, if it bothered me, I can't imagine how it felt to the guy who created the whole thing, even with the money it made.

Indy stuff has been hitting the stores too. The LEGOs came out a while ago, now I'm finding Dr. Pepper with Indy boxes. Good thing I'm not much of an Indy collector!

Comments

[maidenjedi]

We found Indy M&Ms at the store the other day.

[lazypadawan.livejournal.com]

*Must not relapse into ROTS-era M&Ms addiction.*

[may-child.livejournal.com]

Han may not have a fancy schmancy PhD to his name, but he is far from "dumb as a stump." Besides which, HF has more in common with Han than with Indy -- Han is clearly a self-taught man in terms of flying a ship and maintaining it, much as HF taught himself carpentry from books. So does Harrison consider himself "dumb as a stump" too? Or is it just Han he considers dumb because he has some weird grudge against SW?

As for Indy's supposed depth -- what depth? He never changes, he never grows. (Han does both.) He's exactly the same character at the end of "Last Crusade." Speaking of which, "Last Crusade" is a movie in which Indy gets fooled and outwitted by a female Nazi, because he's too busy letting Little Indy do his thinking for him -- even his father is amazed that he could be so stupid.

[(Anonymous)]

Or is it just Han he considers dumb because he has some weird grudge against SW?

You know what really gets me? The media will let a comment like this from an OT actor slide, but the minute someone involved with the PT says something even remotely less than positive about their roles/experiences, everyone jumps all over it as "proof" they despise the PT and George. Just look at the number of times Ewan Mcgregor has been misquoted about his feelings on the PT as a whole. Yeah, he may have had some issues, but he has said over and over again that he didn't regret making them, and was proud to play young Obi-Wan.

Even more recently, some quotes from Hayden have been taken horribly out of context, with articles claiming that he "Slammed the prequels and vowed never to work with George Lucas again". In reality, Hayden said that George was very, very specific about how he wanted him to play Anakin, and in effect, he wasn't given a whole lot of room for his own creative interpretation of the character. "Everything was very predetermined". I do get the feeling that he would have played the character a bit differently if given the choice. But a lot of Hayden's feelings about his performance probably come from all the crap he's gotten (and continues to get) for his role as Anakin. Nevertheless, Hayden has repeatedly said how grateful he was to be part of SW during his Jumper promotion. The media of course ignored all such statements.

[lazypadawan.livejournal.com]

You're right.

[lazypadawan.livejournal.com]

Don't forget, he named himself after the dog ;).

[sreya.livejournal.com]

Besides which, HF has more in common with Han than with Indy -- Han is clearly a self-taught man in terms of flying a ship and maintaining it, much as HF taught himself carpentry from books. So does Harrison consider himself "dumb as a stump" too?

It's funny, before coming in and reading the comments I thought to myself that Harrison sounds a lot like Han Solo when he makes comments like that - the cynicism is so much alike.

Eh, in my "old age" I'm starting to think Harrison's just grumpy because Mark Hamill had a bigger role than he did, and Harrison's turned into a standard Hollywood elitist. :~(

[lazypadawan.livejournal.com]

I think Ford is just a grumpy guy period.

[may-child.livejournal.com]

Heh...according to the "Behind the Magic" DVD, Han was literally created with NF in mind -- while fleshing out the character, Lucas thought about HF's cynical, wisecracking demeanor on the set of "American Graffiti."

And as lp said, HF is and pretty much always has been grumpy. At Celebration 2, when Anthony Daniels interviewed Carrie Fisher, Daniels mentioned what a grouch HF is. She agreed he's a grouch, "but we love him anyway."

Although that last is probably not true for Daniels, who refers to HF as "the movie star," NOT meaning it as a compliment. I don't suppose his encounter with HF at a restaurant a few years ago, where he'd gone over to say hello and HF mistook him for a waiter, did much to endear HF to him either.

[sreya.livejournal.com]

I'd almost have pity for Daniels over that one... but Daniels can be a first-class jerk, too. He was a guest at a convention I went to, and it was pretty disappointing. His entire presentation was very nasty and cruel to George Lucas and his co-stars. :~( Maybe he thought he was being funny. But he wasn't.

Anyway - yeah, Harrison's definitely a long-time grouch! I went to his alma mater, Ripon College, and he has a reputation among the alumni. Pretty much the ONLY contact he keeps up is with his fraternity, and even that is shaky.

[lazypadawan.livejournal.com]

Refer to my Celebration IV report about an acquaintance of mine who had to contend with a rude and grumpy Anthony Daniels while getting his autograph.

Given how Harrison is with SW, I'm not at all surprised he's not an enthusiastic alumni of his alma mater.

[darth-pipes.livejournal.com]

Han and Indy are two of my favorite characters. They're both great. But I do have to agree with may child that out of the two, it's Han that grows as a character. Indy is the same throughout all three movies.

[sreya.livejournal.com]

Ouch! Poor Papa George! Really, I find it amazing that he agreed to do Indy IV after being burned so badly by the prequel nastiness.

Hey, maybe this May for the anniversary, we should start a Thank You campaign of fans mailing nice thank you notes to George!

[lazypadawan.livejournal.com]

Somebody actually tried that a few years ago.

[sreya.livejournal.com]

Oh? How did it go?

[lazypadawan.livejournal.com]

It was on a site called thankthemaker.com. I think it has been taken down now, but it was an attempt by Dan Madsen--former president of the SW Fan Club back in the 1990s--to get one million people to "sign" an online thing thanking Papa George. I don't know how many they got but I don't think it hit a million.

[matril.livejournal.com]

I'm amazed George Lucas went ahead and did Indy IV with that kind of bitterness. He definitely needs to hear some more prequel love. I'm glad he made them! I appreciate the OT even more thanks to them.

I would say Han and Indy are about equally deep, except Han's character undergoes continual growth. The Indy movies are too episodic for any prolonged character development.

[lazypadawan.livejournal.com]

It's a bit like James Bond in a sense, although the same person has played Indiana Jones all along.

[owl]

Wasn't he designed as a Bond-esque character? I prefer Han to Indy. Indy's fun, but Han's more real.

[lazypadawan.livejournal.com]

Indiana Jones was originally conceived as an American version of James Bond. They just roughed him up a little and gave him another job ;).

[nic]

I recently watched TESB with fresh eyes. Han was AMAZING. A gentleman, a hero, and seemed so much deeper than the man I'd seen before. (I'd always been a Luke-girl and paid little attention to Han.)

I don't get it how anyone can dismiss him.

[lazypadawan.livejournal.com]

Han really did come into his own in TESB, showing more than just being the cynical mercenary he was in ANH.

[may-child.livejournal.com]

Yep -- he was still with the Rebellion after three years when he could've left to pay Jabba. He also risked his life going back to the command center to escort Leia to her ship.

In other words, he'd grown and matured enough to have fallen in love for the first time in his life, and to learn to think of people besides himself.

So poo-poo on your anti-Han 'tude, Harry!